Impro with German-Slovenian roots
Interview by Stijn Buyst
Pianist Kaja Draksler, bassist Petter Eldh and percussionist Christian Lillinger are three composers from very different corners of the contemporary improvisation universe. Together, as Punkt.Vrt.Plastik, they perform an energetic version of the classic piano trio arrangement. We can also look forward to Ha habitual Kaja Draksler.
Kaja Draksler studied jazz piano in Ljubljana, then moved to Groningen to complete her bachelor's degree in jazz piano, followed by a master's degree in classical composition in Amsterdam.
She eagerly participated in the Amsterdam improvisation scene, with which she is still associated today. In the meantime, however, she moved back to her native village, surrounded by the Slovenian mountains, with a detour via Copenhagen.
A lot to talk about, but first we have a look at Punkt.Vrt.Plastik.
CHRISTIAN & PETTER
Can you tell anything about Punkt.Vrt.Plastik?
'I have known Christian (Lillinger) for a long time, I think since 2007. When I came to Berlin we often played together. One day he told me about Petter (Eldh), a bass player he wanted to introduce me to. The two had been playing together for a long time, Amok Amor is one of their more known bands, for example. At the Bimhuis October Meeting 2016 we played as a trio for the first time and we liked it so much that we continued.'
A piano trio is a very classical formation, which gives you a lot of history to work with or against. What do you think distinguishes Punkt.Vrt.Plastik?
'I think we make rather complex music in a pretty anarchic way. We don't just read the score, we really put our personality into the music. Each member of the group has a very personal compositional style and distinct opinion. We bring all this information into Punkt.Vrt.Plastik.'
We don't just imitate a score, we really put our personality into the music. Each group member has a very different composing style and distinct opinions.
Kaja Draksler
In fact, what is your favorite piano trio of all time?
'That would have to be the record 'Money Jungle' by Duke Ellington, Charles Mingus and Max Roach, although that wasn't really an existing trio. An obvious choice perhaps, but the mere fact that they are also three composers, with very different voices and ideas, creates a tension.'
What is the composition-improvisation ratio in Punkt.Vrt.Plastik?
‘We play composed pieces, songs. Of course we improvise within the form and there are times when we break free, but we don't do that very often. So even when we sound very free, it's usually improvisation within a form. We use certain structures.’
In earlier works by Punkt.Vrt.Plastik, you sometimes played on two differently tuned pianos, as Seppe Gebruers sometimes does. Will this also be part of your concert at Ha Concerts?
‘I have a concert setup with a midi keyboard that I use, in order to have the quarter-tones available.’
HOME TOWN
You recently returned to your home town in Slovenia. When exactly was that?
‘Two years ago. I became a mother and so I wanted to move to the countryside. It felt right to come here for a while so that my parents could help out a bit and I could experience such a big change in my life in a somewhat familiar environment.’
Does it change the way you approach projects? I imagine if you got a call in Amsterdam, you'd just play a show somewhere a week later.
‘I have to organize everything a bit more. But the problem is not only geographical. When you become a parent, there's a change in lifestyle. Of course there are musicians here that I can play with. Ljubljana is not Amsterdam, but it is on the map: there are many underground venues, and musicians put it on their tour schedules.
Zavod Sploh is an organization that does many things: mostly connected to improvisation, but they also involve contemporary classical music and dance in their program. They connect a lot of different scenes and organize a festival, weekly concerts and workshops.'
Ljubljana is not Amsterdam, but it is on the map: there are many underground venues, and musicians put it on their tour schedules.
Kaja Draksler
So your octet still exists. What other projects are you working on these days?
'Besides Punkt.Vrt.Plastik and the Octet, there is my new group matter 100, a sextet where we go more electronic - I play keyboards and sing through a vocoder.
In Czajka & Puchacz we improvise with elements of pop music - it sounds like songs, but it's all improvised.
And then there are my duos with Terrie Ex and the trumpeter Susana Santos Silva.’
Does changing the landscape - literally and figuratively - have any effect on how you play or how you find inspiration?
‘That's hard for me to say. When we came to Slovenia to play with one of my groups, the saxophonist Ada Rave immediately said to me, "Those mountains! I can hear them in your playing!”
I had never thought about it that much myself: we're living very close to the mountains, but I'm not really a mountain person. I like to look at them, but not necessarily go hiking.
What affects me is the village atmosphere. I have been away from here for a very long time, but a part of me is still a Slovenian villager.'
we are very close to mountains, but I'm not much of a mountain person, actually. I like 'looking' at them, but not necessarily hiking in them. What does do something to me is the 'village vibe'.
Kaja Draksler
CECIL TAYLOR
In 2013, you received your master’s degree with a thesis on the enigmatic Cecil Taylor. He was still alive. Were you able to talk to him?
‘That was the intention, but I was incredibly unlucky. I was supposed to go to New York to see Taylor, but then some personal things happened and I couldn't go. The next time I had a chance to go, he was no longer with us.
By the way, I'm reading his new biography right now. I'm glad that a comprehensive and methodically prepared book on Cecil Taylor has finally been written, although I must say, I don’t agree with all Freeman’s suggestions regarding Taylor’s musical methods. Nevertheless, when I wrote my dissertation, the available information was much more scarce.'
Why did you study Cecil Taylor in particular?
'Actually it was a coincidence. My idea was to find the parallels between a piano piece by Iannis Xenakis and a piece by Taylor. But then it turned out that Taylor's piece - 'Life As...' - was such a hard nut to crack that I dropped the Xenakis part.
I was drawn to Cecil's piece because I was convinced that it could not possibly be purely improvised. There had to be some structure to it, I was sure, but it was impossible for the naked ear to hear it.
So much coherence in this apparent improvisation intrigued me immensely.’
I had arrived at Cecil's piece because I was convinced that it could not possibly be purely improvised. There had to be some structure in it, I was sure, but with the naked ear it was impossible to find out where exactly that structure was.
Kaja Draksler
When you study the work so intensely, does a little bit of Cecil sometimes come out in your own playing?
‘Perhaps it happens now and then, but his playing is technically very demanding, a bit like Thelonious Monk or Art Tatum: they are very difficult to imitate. What inspires me is what and all-around artist Cecil Taylor was.
He didn't just show up and play the piano. He wrote poetry and read it on stage, he worked with dancers and danced himself, he was interested in Japanese Kabuki theater and architecture, ... All these things inspired him and informed his artistry.'
GOLDBERG
On your last visit to Ha Concerts you played Bach's Goldberg Variations in a duo with Marcin Masecki
‘Oh, that was lovely! Marcin is an idol of mine, you know: I admire his playing and his knowledge of both jazz and classical music. Programmer Wim Wabbes once told me that he would love to hear me play Bach with Marcin. Maybe it was just a joke, but when I reminded him of it, he put a lot of energy into it to make it happen.
Marcin and I were looking for ways to play the material, but also to improvise within it. I think we stayed pretty close to the original version, but for a classical listener it might have sound far away.
The concert in Handelsbeurs itself was a challenge: It was very hot and I was very pregnant. I really thought I was going to faint.’
What fascinates me about the world of improvised music is that it brings together very young musicians and absolute legends. In the Amsterdam scene, the ICP Orchestra is the historical centerpiece. During your time in Amsterdam, were you lucky enough to see Misha Mengelberg (pianist of the ICP Orchestra) at work?
‘Yeah, once with Tyshawn Sorey in 2011 and I think twice with ICP around the same time. But he had Alzheimer's by then: he was very withdrawn and didn't play much.’
When I saw you play with Terrie Ex two years ago, I was struck by how great it turned out, even though musically you seem to come from completely different planets - you went through three colleges and Terrie comes from punk. You also seem to bring out things in Terrie that I have never seen him do before. For example, at one point he even started tuning his guitar.
‘Ha, I don't remember that. It's quite a challenge for me to play with Terrie. His sounds and shapes are so elusive. I can't really blend as a pianist, but I also don't want to merely provide the background for it or overshadow it.
And then there is the whole visual aspect of Terrie. I usually don't see that, because I improvised with my eyes closed. Then, when I see a recording of such a concert, the experience is completely different from the one I had on the stage.'
Is there anything else you would like to tell us about the concert that Punkt.Vrt.Plastik will play at Ha Concerts?
‘We will bring new material that we record in January. And of course everybody should come: it's a fun band, people never get bored when we play. Some don't like it, but that's okay, too.’
'It's a fun band', people never get bored when we play. Some don't like it, but that's okay too.'
Kaja Draksler
Punkt.Vrt.Plastik
With Kaja Draksler, Petter Eldh and Christian Lillinger
"A supergroup" in free improv
20:15 Tickets